tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9174025374821038087.post3124542810519749110..comments2024-01-29T17:51:55.608+00:00Comments on Nige's Diet & Nutrition Blog: Nutritional Ketosis: What is it good for?Nigel Kinbrumhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03368973941328529619noreply@blogger.comBlogger51125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9174025374821038087.post-88970583988929672982014-08-19T11:36:53.385+01:002014-08-19T11:36:53.385+01:00If your comment is aimed at Nicholas S. Miller, yo...If your comment is aimed at Nicholas S. Miller, you just wasted a few minutes typing. He's not coming back!Nigel Kinbrumhttp://nigeepoo.blogspot.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9174025374821038087.post-50693651660286161932014-08-19T11:26:26.278+01:002014-08-19T11:26:26.278+01:00Oh wow, an online anecdote! Please read Fred's...Oh wow, an online anecdote! Please read Fred's online commentary on various blogs and decide whether he is willing to adjust his views with new evidence presented to him.<br />Fred Hahn is even considered a zealot in paleo circles. That says a lot.Screennamerequirednoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9174025374821038087.post-40710346532045133042014-08-07T17:29:14.457+01:002014-08-07T17:29:14.457+01:00Hello Nicholas,
"I know Fred Hahn very well,...Hello Nicholas,<br /><br />"I know Fred Hahn very well, and have been friends since our 15 year olds<br /> were infants. I have trained with Fred, accepted advice from Fred, and <br />enjoyed vigorous debates and discussions with Fred. We are neighbors and<br /> close friends."<br />Your comments may be a <i>little</i> biased, in that case.<br /><br />"Fred is a lot of things, but a "liar" is absolutely the furthest thing <br />from who he is as a person. In fact, Fred is honest to a fault, and <br />anyone who makes any claims to the contrary is someone who should be <br />aggressively ignored."<br />Fred stated in https://www.facebook.com/FredrickHahn/posts/10152227780827864<br />"Nigel Kinbrum is a coward. He enjoys poking fun at people, but blocks <br />them from commenting..."<br />That's more than one lie. That's why I called him a liar. Therefore, your statement that he isn't a liar is false. "Aggressively ignoring" sounds like an oxymoron to me.<br /><br />"I did not read the entire of the above, but your claims of intellectual <br />dishonesty and the peddling of "pseudo-science" is unfounded and false."<br />Why didn't you read the entire of the above. Do you prefer to comment from a position of ignorance? If you read the entirety of the above Facebook thread, you'll see that Fred doesn't back-up his opinions with evidence, unlike me. He resorts to name-calling and other logical fallacies. If you read http://nigeepoo.blogspot.co.uk/2014/06/guest-post-science-versus-pseudoscience.html , you'll see that Fred's 80%E fat diet meets <b>all</b> of the criteria for pseudoscience.<br /><br />"There is always disagreement in the scientific community..."<br />See http://nigeepoo.blogspot.co.uk/2014/06/guest-post-denialism-as.html , Item 3. I now have the measure of you, Mr Miller.<br /><br />"and to dismiss someone whose views (based on his reading of the available evidence) diverge from "conventional wisdom" should be done at your own risk."<br />I have criticised Fred's 80%E fat diet on the grounds that it is atherogenic and have supported that assertion with dozens of peer-reviewed studies, many of them on humans. What is the risk in doing that?<br /><br />"While some of Fred's views on nutrition and exercise may buck prevailing orthodoxy (aka baloney)..."<br />I <b>definitely</b> have the measure of you, Mr Miller!<br /><br />"I can say that he absolutely practices exactly what he preaches..."<br />Good.<br /><br />"always has a great deal of research and due diligence behind his recommendations..."<br />If he does, he keeps it well-hidden.<br /><br />"and is certainly the healthiest 50-something man I know."<br />Are you his Doctor? Have you seen the insides of Fred's coronary arteries? Ditto his carotid arteries? Did you know that the marathon runner Brian Maxwell dropped dead from a heart attack at the age of 51?<br /><br />"Following his guidance has made me personally healthier and stronger (and somewhat lighter) than I've been at any other time in my life (I'm 42)."<br />Resistance training tends to do that. You can't claim that you're healthier, though (unless you had a medical condition that's now gone as a result of the training).<br /><br />"I will also add that from my experience he has always been willing to adjust his views when new evidence arises, as anyone who is on the cutting edge must be willing to do."<br />That's not the impression I got from my debates with him. He's very dogmatic, and rejects all evidence that contradicts his dietary beliefs.<br /><br />"In short, this post is silly and people should not listen to you."<br />Thank you for your opinion. In short, your comment is riddled with pseudoscientific thinking. I can see why you & Fred are friends.<br /><br />Unless you are God and are somehow able to stop people from reading my blog, the last part of your sentence is utterly ludicrous. That doesn't surprise me at all. I'm guessing that you are eating a ketogenic diet. That would explain your muddled thought processes.<br /><br />Regards, Nigel KinbrumNigel Kinbrumhttp://nigeepoo.blogspot.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9174025374821038087.post-52800921875577709642014-08-07T16:48:31.396+01:002014-08-07T16:48:31.396+01:00I know Fred Hahn very well, and have been friends ...I know Fred Hahn very well, and have been friends since our 15 year olds were infants. I have trained with Fred, accepted advice from Fred, and enjoyed vigorous debates and discussions with Fred. We are neighbors and close friends.<br /><br />Fred is a lot of things, but a "liar" is absolutely the furthest thing from who he is as a person. In fact, Fred is honest to a fault, and anyone who makes any claims to the contrary is someone who should be aggressively ignored. I did not read the entire of the above, but your claims of intellectual dishonesty and the peddling of "pseudo-science" is unfounded and false. There is always disagreement in the scientific community, and to dismiss someone whose views (based on his reading of the available evidence) diverge from "conventional wisdom" should be done at your own risk.<br /><br />While some of Fred's views on nutrition and exercise may buck prevailing orthodoxy (aka baloney), I can say that he absolutely practices exactly what he preaches, always has a great deal of research and due diligence behind his recommendations, and is certainly the healthiest 50-something man I know. Following his guidance has made me personally healthier and stronger (and somewhat lighter) than I've been at any other time in my life (I'm 42). I will also add that from my experience he has always been willing to adjust his views when new evidence arises, as anyone who is on the cutting edge must be willing to do.<br /><br />In short, this post is silly and people should not listen to you.Nicholas S. Millernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9174025374821038087.post-17856460386535361352014-08-02T07:09:53.634+01:002014-08-02T07:09:53.634+01:00You're up early! So am I, as I needed a call o...You're up early! So am I, as I needed a call of nature!<br /><br />Fredrick Hahn may look "fit" relative to Howard Harkness, but he has posted recent pictures of himself during our "spat", and his physique isn't good when compared to other <b>bodybuilders</b> of his age. As I post on muscletalk.co.uk, I get to see a <b>lot</b> of bodybuilders' bodies! ;-)<br /><br />When shown a picture of a BB'er with a better physique than him, Fred Hahn always comes up with the same excuses as to why it's invalid - black man, younger man, steroid user. He falsely accuses people of steroid use, when Androgenic Anabolic Steroids are used mostly by people who are trying to win a competition & by youngsters, not by mature, amateur BB'ers.<br /><br />His posture during the interview was poor, as he was sitting round-shouldered and slouching.<br /><br />People who think that they have "the solution" to the obesity problem haven't thought things through properly and are somewhat deluded, as the obesity problem has a large number of contributory factors. It's <b>not</b> the carbs (not exactly, anyway)!Nigel Kinbrumhttp://nigeepoo.blogspot.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9174025374821038087.post-32727140618077090582014-08-02T06:49:48.272+01:002014-08-02T06:49:48.272+01:00I listened to the Fredrick Hahn interview, I thoug...I listened to the Fredrick Hahn interview, I thought he came across pretty well, especially considering the interviewer seemed unprepared later on in the conversation. <br /><br />What I found amazing was the interviewer also claimed to be doing the same lifestyle choice the Mr. Hahn had selected, but he did not look a well fit man, where as Mr. Hahn did.<br /><br />The one statement he made that stood out like a sore thumb, was his remark on<br /><br />an hour and half to solve the obesity problem. Project management maybe isn't one of his skills. Overall though, I thought he made his case well.iannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9174025374821038087.post-60023717744437979142014-07-28T19:08:46.578+01:002014-07-28T19:08:46.578+01:00Hi Nigel, do you have any posts you can point me t...Hi Nigel, do you have any posts you can point me to about achieving low serum insulin on a 70%E natural carb diet? Were any of the populations studied European? And does it matter if someone has genes that may predispose to diabetes? <br /><br /><br />Also, what do you think about the mixed diet of basically moderate fat and moderate carb? That seems to be a diet that many people naturally lean towards when given the option, since it's easily achieved just by eating 'real foods' to taste. <br /><br /><br />I've just been reading some of your Vitamin D and melanoma posts . . interesting stuff!Catherinenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9174025374821038087.post-35025636139801919992014-07-26T23:21:00.087+01:002014-07-26T23:21:00.087+01:00Can't you leave comments? Fred hasn't exac...Can't you leave comments? Fred hasn't exactly "accepted" me lol, but I can currently leave comments. For how much longer, I don't know. I'm really pushing my luck, there!Nigel Kinbrumhttp://nigeepoo.blogspot.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9174025374821038087.post-1032599076803729842014-07-26T23:14:54.868+01:002014-07-26T23:14:54.868+01:00I don't engage with "odd" people (to...I don't engage with "odd" people (to put it more nicely) in other areas, so I guess I am a little biased. My mind is boggled by some of the comments made by VLCVHF'ers on Fred Hahn's FB page. Recent commenters in this post are from his "camp". I have no idea what they think they're doing. They leave 1 or 2 comments here, then slag me off on Fred's FB page with no intention of returning here.<br /><br />The bit that's worrying me about NK is "The high-fat ketogenic diet used in childhood epilepsy may not be <br />suitable for use in adults because of its atherogenic potential;"<br /><br />While ketones <b>may</b> offer neuroprotection, it doesn't explain the low rates of degenerative brain diseases in populations with high carb %E from tubers, veggies etc.Nigel Kinbrumhttp://nigeepoo.blogspot.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9174025374821038087.post-31385383722538908752014-07-26T22:35:06.624+01:002014-07-26T22:35:06.624+01:00I hope this Fred guy accepts me on FB so I can com...I hope this Fred guy accepts me on FB so I can comment. LOL.Mark Hiltonnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9174025374821038087.post-78830622658030992282014-07-26T20:21:10.532+01:002014-07-26T20:21:10.532+01:00What worries me about NK is that it's poorly c...What worries me about NK is that it's poorly controlled.<br /><br />Are you considering spending the rest of your life in ketosis, in the hope that your brain will be protected from degenerative diseases?<br /><br />What are these "toxins associated with Alzheimer's<br /> or Parkinson's"?<br /><br />Blue Zone populations seem to be relatively free from degenerative brain diseases. Maybe the secret is keeping serum insulin low (which can be achieved on a diet of 70%E from natural carbohydrates).<br /><br />While ketones enhance mental faculties in people who have degenerative brain diseases, they don't seem to enhance the mental faculties of the VLCVHF dieters that I am engaging in debate. The opposite seems to be the case.Nigel Kinbrumhttp://nigeepoo.blogspot.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9174025374821038087.post-16796013594476116762014-07-26T20:03:34.797+01:002014-07-26T20:03:34.797+01:00I don't know what was going through her mind w...I don't know <b>what</b> was going through her mind when she wrote that comment. Oy!Nigel Kinbrumhttp://nigeepoo.blogspot.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9174025374821038087.post-44206537681109497762014-07-26T20:00:20.948+01:002014-07-26T20:00:20.948+01:00Hi Bryan,
Sorry to keep you waiting, but I was ha...Hi Bryan,<br /><br />Sorry to keep you waiting, but I was having a much-needed snooze. This heat-wave is knocking me out.<br /><br />Having debated with Fred three times now, I'm certain that he's not the slightest bit interested in <b>any</b> evidence that I show him.<br /><br />Have you read the Guest post on denialism? Fred uses <b>every</b> item listed in that post.<br /><br />P.S. You're now white-listed.Nigel Kinbrumhttp://nigeepoo.blogspot.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9174025374821038087.post-61907492059754723222014-07-26T19:35:09.984+01:002014-07-26T19:35:09.984+01:00I'm talking about the benefit of ß-OHB with re...I'm talking about the benefit of ß-OHB with respect to avoiding/preventing Alzheimer's or Parkinson's disease in the first place--not just as a therapeutic treatment applicable to already established cases:<br /><br /> "ß-OHB...has protected neuronal cells in tissue culture<br /> against exposure to toxins associated with Alzheimer's<br /> or Parkinson's." [George Cahill; citation above]<br /><br />Not to imply that these neurologic disorders are caused by a lack of ketones [!], but "protection against" suggests the potential to help avoid/prevent the DEVELOPMENT of Alzheimer's or Parkinson's.<br /><br />As you know, nutritional ketosis doesn't require an intake of 80%E from fat:<br /> "...strictly speaking, any diet with less than 100g/day of<br /> carbohydrate will cause ketosis to develop to some degree<br /> (more ketones will be generated as carbs are lowered."<br /> [Lyle McDonald]<br />An Atkin's "maintenance" level of carb restriction (say, 90g/day carbs) could therefore provide a fairly palatable and tolerable diet that<br />would permit at least a modest degree of these beneficial substances.<br /><br />That is: one wouldn't need to eat a stick of Kerrygold washed down with a pint of heavy cream at each meal.<br /><br />I'm not myself currently playing with a ketogenic diet, but because this "superfuel" (as Cahill called ß-OHB) apparently provides protection from the toxins that would otherwise lead to these neurologic disorders, nutritional ketosis doesn't look to me like a case of "good for absolutely nothing."billy the knoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9174025374821038087.post-29156607055115951542014-07-26T17:46:01.895+01:002014-07-26T17:46:01.895+01:00It looks like she just didn't know what white-...It looks like she just didn't know what white-listing was.Bryan Harrisnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9174025374821038087.post-41327987826156325742014-07-26T17:42:53.012+01:002014-07-26T17:42:53.012+01:00Hello. I guess you could get a third party to mod...Hello. I guess you could get a third party to moderate some sort of debate between you and him. Then neither side can have control of the conversation, and you can feel free to point out any logical inconsistencies after you have a chance to review everything that was said during the debate.Bryan Harrisnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9174025374821038087.post-67450730232151709362014-07-26T10:32:25.932+01:002014-07-26T10:32:25.932+01:00No poking fun at Jimmy! Glad to be white-listed (I...No poking fun at Jimmy! Glad to be white-listed (I admit I didn't know what that meant)!!Sue Staltarinoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9174025374821038087.post-85425424109727032512014-07-26T10:26:43.415+01:002014-07-26T10:26:43.415+01:00Hi Sue,
I hope that you're not poking fun at ...Hi Sue,<br /><br />I hope that you're not poking fun at Jimmy Moore. Deceit, deceit, deceit. That seems to be an ongoing theme with the VLCVHF community.<br /><br />I think that Jimmy is too mired in the Taubesian fantasy of "You can be as gluttonous as you like...etc" to change his ways. I hope I'm wrong.<br /><br />Anyway, welcome to my blog. I didn't realise that you'd never commented here before. You are now white-listed.Nigel Kinbrumhttp://nigeepoo.blogspot.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9174025374821038087.post-12957601194587676712014-07-26T10:18:54.762+01:002014-07-26T10:18:54.762+01:00Jimmy Moore still uses that old photo of when he w...Jimmy Moore still uses that old photo of when he was the slimmest. That is deceitful. Maybe without ketosis he would have gone back to his highest weight, who knows. He obviously needs to decrease calories and do some weight lifting.Sue Staltarinoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9174025374821038087.post-56501812068199974852014-07-25T23:24:12.177+01:002014-07-25T23:24:12.177+01:00Nige said: "To my eyes, nutritional ketosis i...Nige said: "To my eyes, nutritional ketosis is good for absolutely nothing."<br />Question: What about the observations [described in the papers below] that the principal ketone (ß-OHB) has shown promise in being of benefit in a number of neurologic disorders [e.g., Alzheimer's and Parkinson's disease?]<br /> [George Cahill]: " a chemical agent, ß-OHB, that has played such a major role in man's survival may be expected to have actions other than simply calories. When nature has such a beneficial substance, it may become pleiotropic through evolution with other survival advantages. Insulin and thyroid hormones are excellent hormonal examples..."<br /> Don't the potential benefits of ß-OHB for neurologic disorders deserve a valuation of ketogenic levels of carb restriction as something above "good for absolutely nothing? <br /><br />http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2194504/pdf/tacca00002-0213.pdf<br /><br />http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/store/10.1080/152165401753311780/asset/713803796_ftp.pdf?v=1&t=hy20wt6v&s=682f9fdd9ad12adddddaadc4ddd5de4d30031224billy the knoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9174025374821038087.post-87989495366975019342014-07-25T19:44:42.523+01:002014-07-25T19:44:42.523+01:00Ian,
You're talking to yourself! These people...Ian,<br /><br />You're talking to yourself! These people came here for one purpose only, which was to leave a comment and when that comment was not instantaneously approved, go back to https://www.facebook.com/FredrickHahn/posts/10152227780827864 to bitch and moan and accuse me of lying about white-listing, 'cos they thought that white-listing worked retrospectively ('cos they're a bunch of idiots who can't read simple instructions!).<br /><br />I've invited them back here to discuss stuff, but they're not interested in having any kind of meaningful exchange of views.Nigel Kinbrumhttp://nigeepoo.blogspot.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9174025374821038087.post-1108778241592856072014-07-25T19:34:46.908+01:002014-07-25T19:34:46.908+01:00I think that Martin Levac must have been abducted ...I think that Martin Levac must have been abducted by aliens and used as a template to churn out all of the other VLC nutters! ;-) :-D<br /><br />Whatever happened to LynMarie Daye?<br /><br />Skyler Tanner, Dr. B G and Dr. Art Ayers are still going strong.Nigel Kinbrumhttp://nigeepoo.blogspot.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9174025374821038087.post-91441283820590202902014-07-25T19:12:26.287+01:002014-07-25T19:12:26.287+01:00Jen, knowing Nige for a decade, I can tell you he...Jen, knowing Nige for a decade, I can tell you he does not seek an audience sycophants, he's happy, to discuss things with folk of opposing views.iannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9174025374821038087.post-62087214279773000962014-07-25T18:41:44.669+01:002014-07-25T18:41:44.669+01:00Wow. Martin Levac! Whatever happened to that dud...Wow. Martin Levac! Whatever happened to that dude?! Thanks for the flashback Nigel. Sometimes I think I must be misremembering and that they WEREN'T so adamant about carbs required for fat storage.carbsanenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9174025374821038087.post-70956424808244257932014-07-25T16:52:04.027+01:002014-07-25T16:52:04.027+01:00I believe you. Are you eating a diet containing 80...I believe you. Are you eating a diet containing 80% of total energy from fat, though? Somehow, I doubt it! <br /><br />Even the Eskimos, Sami, Masai, Samburu, Tokelauans etc only get ~50% of their total energy from fats.<br /><br />To demonstrate to you the effect of these people's extreme diets on their cognitive function, see https://www.facebook.com/FredrickHahn/posts/10152227780827864 It's not a pretty sight!<br /><br />P.S. You're now white-listed.Nigel Kinbrumhttp://nigeepoo.blogspot.com/noreply@blogger.com