tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9174025374821038087.post6242964720965183688..comments2024-01-29T17:51:55.608+00:00Comments on Nige's Diet & Nutrition Blog: Paleo diet: Dr. Loren Cordain's rebuttal to the National Academy of Sciences.Nigel Kinbrumhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03368973941328529619noreply@blogger.comBlogger33125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9174025374821038087.post-64929115059257614162013-06-28T09:30:54.545+01:002013-06-28T09:30:54.545+01:00Well, now you mention it, there is an Egyptian fri...Well, now you mention it, there is an Egyptian frieze that shows the making of white flour. It was very time consuming and very labour intensive, so it would only have been for the poshest people and even then they probably didn't eat very much.Ballomar Cingetorigishttp://www.wild-aurochs.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9174025374821038087.post-87454034171235834332013-06-28T07:28:59.518+01:002013-06-28T07:28:59.518+01:00Disqus ate my reply twice. 3rd time lucky.
Mid-Vic...Disqus ate my reply twice. 3rd time lucky.<br />Mid-Victorian Brits had an unfair "advantage" - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corn_LawsNigel Kinbrumhttp://nigeepoo.blogspot.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9174025374821038087.post-88452047104262359502013-06-28T04:32:44.781+01:002013-06-28T04:32:44.781+01:00Well paleolithic includes the people who hunted ma...Well paleolithic includes the people who hunted mammoths and slaughtered other large mammals, including predators. It means people with stone tools, and once that includes atlatls we're in business. Sure they ate algae, but so people today, it's called spirulina, kelp, and so on.<br />These foods may have been eaten as medicines or supplements, they weren't rich in calories.<br />They didn't eat what they wanted to all the time, but they KNEW what they wanted to eat and at some stage became able to identify more efficient ways of finding calories than their original instinctive ones.<br />They started to think about food and apply their imaginations to getting fed; cave paintings are a sign of this, of course, so is fire, and hunting technology. <br />Whenever this way of thinking began, I would say is the moment we began to be human.Georgenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9174025374821038087.post-68110252572467984432013-06-28T04:22:04.972+01:002013-06-28T04:22:04.972+01:00Pre-steel milling, flour was not wholegrain in our...Pre-steel milling, flour was not wholegrain in our modern sense, they would still try to get rid of the bran and germ. White bread was at a premium in the late middle ages, the alchemists theorised about the effect of eating such "pure" foods, so it was possible to make bread that looked significantly lighter than common bread, it just took more time and cost more.Georgenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9174025374821038087.post-1440237449609063942013-06-27T08:13:20.995+01:002013-06-27T08:13:20.995+01:00Exactly! Without modern medicine, an excessively-l...Exactly! Without modern medicine, an excessively-large percentage of babies (and their mothers) died at birth & early childhood. This lowered <b>average</b> lifespan figures considerably, so people scoff at populations who lived before the invention of modern medicine with "they only lived to 50" or whatever.Nigel Kinbrumhttp://nigeepoo.blogspot.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9174025374821038087.post-12624893332533449192013-06-27T01:49:02.957+01:002013-06-27T01:49:02.957+01:00If they survived birth & early childhood....bi...If they survived birth & early childhood....big ifDiana Moonnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9174025374821038087.post-52369440367171758612013-06-27T01:48:23.291+01:002013-06-27T01:48:23.291+01:00He deals with macronutrient ratios. The Frassetto ...He deals with macronutrient ratios. The Frassetto and Lindeberg studies compare Paleo(ish) with "heart healthy" Mediterranean and the former win hands-down. Sorry, no URLs.Diana Moonnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9174025374821038087.post-91609940390103637792013-06-27T01:46:58.746+01:002013-06-27T01:46:58.746+01:00I once lived around a lot of Mexican immigrants wh...I once lived around a lot of Mexican immigrants who subsisted on "tripa." (tripe) A lot of Neolithic diets are very Paleo.Diana Moonnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9174025374821038087.post-19521161238384893652013-06-26T21:52:17.342+01:002013-06-26T21:52:17.342+01:00Diana, this might help supply those comparisons. I...Diana, this might help supply those comparisons. I like the way Bill thinks here:<br />http://caloriesproper.com/?p=2941Georgenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9174025374821038087.post-2879603411870854512013-06-26T14:54:14.011+01:002013-06-26T14:54:14.011+01:00The Mid-Victorian Brits lived about as long as Bri...The Mid-Victorian Brits lived about as long as Brits today, if they survived birth & early childhood, without the benefit of antibiotics & modern surgical techniques. See http://nigeepoo.blogspot.co.uk/2013/03/how-mid-victorians-worked-ate-and-died.htmlNigel Kinbrumhttp://nigeepoo.blogspot.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9174025374821038087.post-13255704909303156682013-06-26T14:46:31.168+01:002013-06-26T14:46:31.168+01:00I've been buying loads of pigs' kidneys, a...I've been buying loads of pigs' kidneys, as they've been drastically reduced in price due to lack of demand. You should see the looks of disgust I get from checkout and other people. I've eaten tripe, melts, hearts, livers, bladders, necks & feet (from boiling hens). Om, nom, nom!<br /><br />I haven't tried Witchity grubs, fried locusts, 100 day old eggs, Natto & algae (I <i>might</i> eat them), or eyeballs & Balut eggs (I wouldn't eat them unless my life depended on it).Nigel Kinbrumhttp://nigeepoo.blogspot.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9174025374821038087.post-75020381896957341932013-06-26T14:30:15.273+01:002013-06-26T14:30:15.273+01:00George,
Despite my skepticism this intrigues me....George,<br /><br /><br />Despite my skepticism this intrigues me. Did the Neandertal genes in Eurasians pop up after this bottleneck or before?<br /><br /><br />Sub-Saharan Africans' genome shows presence of other archaic humans, about 5%.Diana Moonnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9174025374821038087.post-61332484353065426822013-06-26T14:26:25.726+01:002013-06-26T14:26:25.726+01:00My ancestors were Neolithic.
But seriously folks...My ancestors were Neolithic.<br /><br /><br />But seriously folks, although I happen to really like the moniker Paleo Diet, I guess it is easily made fun of. OK. <br /><br /><br /><br />I was an early adherent to Paleo when the first Eaton, Shostak, Konner book came out. Moved away, recently returned to my roots. Why? Because I think their version of the discordance theory is right, and that the debunkings and rebuttals are ALL cheap shots aimed at low-hanging fruit and the pop version of the diet. <br /><br /><br /><br />Nige - I don't think Europeans150 years ago were that healthy, so I don't think returning to their diet is optimal, although it sure would be an improvement on SAD/SED.<br /><br /><br />The early Paleo theorists didn't say that Paleo was an all-purpose cure for everything, or even that Paleo people were healthier - they just said that divergence from the Paleo diet explains metabolic disorders ('diseases of civilization'). We're a lot better off now, for the most part. But it seems we've succeeded in keeping people alive only to manage chronic disease.<br /><br /><br />I can't be arsed right now to find the Frassetto, Lindeberg and other studies that compare Paleo-ish to Mediterranean, but they exist, and guess what Paleo-ish beats Mediterranean all the time. So why not go straight to the optimal?Diana Moonnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9174025374821038087.post-25976748128123510072013-06-26T14:20:28.933+01:002013-06-26T14:20:28.933+01:00Australopithecines weren't human. And I don...Australopithecines weren't human. And I don't believe that Paleolithic humans ate what they wanted to eat. I think that Paleolithic humans lived near a water source, killed the animals who came near the water source, or scavenged their corpses, and ate all the ugly shit that grows up around the water source. I just googled 'is algae edible'? Turns out it is. They ate all the slimy creepy crawly gooey things in and around water sources. Sounds pretty revolting to me, but I firmly support the Paleo discordance theory.Diana Moonnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9174025374821038087.post-32990419798627401642013-06-26T12:54:06.071+01:002013-06-26T12:54:06.071+01:00Paleoanthropologists aren't that stupid, are t...Paleoanthropologists aren't <b>that</b> stupid, are they? Oh, wait...Nigel Kinbrumhttp://nigeepoo.blogspot.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9174025374821038087.post-88101653327486684682013-06-26T12:47:10.806+01:002013-06-26T12:47:10.806+01:00Nowadays, most bread is http://en.wikipedia.org/wi...Nowadays, most bread is http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chorleywood_bread_process<br /><br /><br />I eat only Burgen Soya & Linseed bread. I have 2 slices a day, every now and then. I don't know what process is used in its manufacture.Nigel Kinbrumhttp://nigeepoo.blogspot.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9174025374821038087.post-88205485050736272642013-06-26T12:17:21.614+01:002013-06-26T12:17:21.614+01:00It's extremely difficult to make white flour w...It's extremely difficult to make white flour without mechanized steel mills, so almost everyone use to eat whole grain bread. It also takes a long time to leaven dough naturally, perhaps up to three days.<br /><br /><br /><br /><br />White flour yeast leavened bread is a very recent introduction to the food chain. The production method is very different from the traditional one; I have trouble thinking of it as the same product as the traditional naturally fermented whole grain breads that my ancestors ate for thousands of years.<br /><br /><br /><br /><br />BTW, I avoid the term 'sourdough'. The naturally fermented bread I eat often isn't very sour and is often quite sweet tasting. Sourdough is OK when talking about San Francisco-style breads where particular micro-organisms, really do give it a very sour taste.Ballomar Cingetorigishttp://www.wild-aurochs.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9174025374821038087.post-903792318816637412013-06-26T11:58:04.097+01:002013-06-26T11:58:04.097+01:00I found http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sourdough#His...I found http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sourdough#History_of_sourdough <br /><br />Wikipedia > The woman in the Weald & Down museum.<br />So the Mid-Victorians were eating stone-ground whole-wheat sourdough. Yay!Nigel Kinbrumhttp://nigeepoo.blogspot.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9174025374821038087.post-2557788922842464122013-06-26T11:26:13.496+01:002013-06-26T11:26:13.496+01:00Well, it's on Wikipedia, else on paper, and I ...Well, it's on Wikipedia, else on paper, and I can't give you a link to that.<br /><br /><br />400 years ago they hadn't isolated yeast so they didn't know it existed. The famous German Reinheitsgebot doesn't mention it - so all those Bavarian brewers adding yeast are breaking the law.<br /><br /><br />It was only once yeast was isolated that it could be used in baking and they good forego one of the natural leaven methods.Ballomar Cingetorigishttp://www.wild-aurochs.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9174025374821038087.post-75918855686057636012013-06-26T11:13:27.512+01:002013-06-26T11:13:27.512+01:00Can you give a link to "my (previous) informa...Can you give a link to "my (previous) information"? <br /><br />For all I know, it could have been a lady with big, blue eyes! ;-)Nigel Kinbrumhttp://nigeepoo.blogspot.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9174025374821038087.post-48557819090678975952013-06-26T11:07:28.850+01:002013-06-26T11:07:28.850+01:00Cute. But I think I'll stick to my previous i...Cute. But I think I'll stick to my previous information.Ballomar Cingetorigishttp://www.wild-aurochs.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9174025374821038087.post-59921050551123870442013-06-26T10:48:53.196+01:002013-06-26T10:48:53.196+01:00I'll tell ya. The lady at the grain-grinding w...I'll tell ya. The lady at the grain-grinding windmill in the Weald & Down Museum (you'll have to Google it yourself, as I'm far too busy).<br /><br />I looked into her big, brown eyes and believed every word she told me (I may have made some of that up).Nigel Kinbrumhttp://nigeepoo.blogspot.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9174025374821038087.post-84079244743835519272013-06-26T10:45:02.484+01:002013-06-26T10:45:02.484+01:00Paleo vodka & cigarettes, obviously! ;-)Paleo vodka & cigarettes, obviously! ;-)Nigel Kinbrumhttp://nigeepoo.blogspot.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9174025374821038087.post-77942782986270508442013-06-26T10:44:36.053+01:002013-06-26T10:44:36.053+01:00I didn't read the sources, as there just aren&...I didn't read the sources, as there just aren't enough hours in the day to do the brazillion different things that I'm trying to do (my guitar practice has suffered and I haven't developed any calluses!).<br />I was thinking of the Mid-Victorian era (which I blogged about), rather than the Dark Ages.<br />People who have damaged their guts with gluten & pufas galore need to heal them, so gluten & pufas need to be minimised until the damage has been repaired (if it can be).Nigel Kinbrumhttp://nigeepoo.blogspot.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9174025374821038087.post-45773993116964232512013-06-26T09:38:16.310+01:002013-06-26T09:38:16.310+01:00I don't know where you got that about "so...I don't know where you got that about "sourdough" going out of fashion 400 years ago.<br /><br /><br />According to my information, yeast leavened bread only was made possible after the industrialisation of brewing, which allowed brewers to skim the yeast off the wort and sell it to bakers. This happened in the 19th century and especially once theories of microbiology became accepted following work by Louis Pasteur and others. <br /><br /><br />Before then all leavened bread was naturally fermented.Ballomar Cingetorigishttp://www.wild-aurochs.com/noreply@blogger.com